When did XYZ first appear? Looking for dates/specifics, please

Hi folks,

I apologize in advance if what I am asking is common knowledge somehow; however, I cannot seem to find this anywhere.

I read all five books of the Ra Material for the first time this past month. Within the first page or so it became immediately apparent to me that there were certain topics which the questioner (who I now know to be Don) already knew about, but which someone unfamiliar to the topic might be unfamiliar with. Specifically, I was struck by the immediate mention of “coming Earth changes” (those are obvious now to anyone with eyeballs, but this was 1981), and then, later, the mention, without explanation, of the Orion group. (Specifically, Ra says, “Some are of the entities known to you as the group of Orion” – emphasis mine – implying that the Orion group was already known to Don and/or Humanity before this contact.)

Then I was reading another thread on here which mentions a channeling of Hatonn … And this all has me wondering: Where/when precisely did these various concepts or entities first come up, specifically?

My guess is that the “coming Earth changes” might simply have been a reference to the various “cataclysms” etc warned about in UFO contacts in the 1950s and 1960s, which I am quite familiar with. However, I have no idea where Orion was first mentioned – can anyone point me to this, please? I think it may have been from a specific abduction experience, but I cannot now recall which one it was, or when …

Same question for the entities being channeled: When did Hatonn first appear? Were they channeled first by LLR, or some other source? The first channeling transcribed on the LLR website is from 1972, and they evidently already knew Hatonn then. Q’uo, Latwii – same question. If you were going to explain, to a complete noob, where did these guys “come from,” what would you say?

I am pretty sure there is a concrete reason that’s going to emerge from my asking this, above and beyond just rational curiosity, but I’m not positive what it is just yet.


I don’t know anything, especially about where information comes from, but for a start date…
For as long as entities have existed information has come to us for the asking. It would be mundane, trivial, short sighted of me to assume that only became available from year X. It is a possibility much of this information was erased through the crusades and witch hunts as an example. Tribal cultures were taught farming techniques that would take centuries to learn in a year. Hence the culling of indigenous peoples. There are prophecies of the Mayans, the calendar ended in 2012 I think if I recall correctly. My understanding is for as long as there has been self awareness, there has been an asking. And an answering.

I apologize for the distraction if I mis-perceived the question or turned it into a projection, your question is interesting to me. Hard to see the darkside is, it clouds everything in these days.

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Hmm … No apologies necessary as you may actually have perhaps illuminated a part of why I am curious about all of this.

Clearly, these entities are ancient beyond our Mortal comprehension. Why, then, is the first reference I can find to Hatonn from 1972? (I’m not being rhetorical but I am asking … If anyone has the answer, please do share!)

Ra explained their reasons for delaying contact – that, basically, they did come down here a whole lotta centuries ago, and things went south in a hurry. Thus, they waited awhile, eyeing the global population, taking its temperature, and then, finally, waiting for a suitable channel (which, let’s face it; knowing that 2 of 3 of the group was 6D to begin with, one has to wonder if it was planned out in 6D time/space before those two even incarnated). So, there’s Ra … What about the rest? And where the heck did Orion come from? I’m just danged curious …

One avenue I may pursue: my friend recently mentioned to me, a few months ago now, how curious it is that we appear to be sort of repeating a century-long cycle – the 1920s were evidently a time of lots of “spiritualism” and channeling. I wonder if it might be possible to dig up some old channeling sessions from that era to see what lines up …

Before the Ra contact they were doing channeling for like 10 years. That’s where all that came from. You can read the Hatonn material on their website

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I’ve been going through all LLR channelings in order starting from the older ones, and the one I was just listening to (1974 - March 18th - Hatonn - L|L Research Meditations - YouTube, or read: Monday meditation) mentioned a few little hints:

… This instrument has developed capability of utilizing speech as a form of communication of which I have spoken. This is done by availing oneself in meditation to our concepts. At this time he is using a form of communication that involves simply speaking that which we give to him. He has cleared his mind of all other thoughts and is simply being receptive to anything that is impressed upon him. It is very difficult for an individual who is familiar with the form of communication upon this line to do this in a very rapid manner for he attempts to analyze what is given to him. He attempts to formulate in his own mind things about what are being given to him. This instrument at this time is simply receptive and is simply speaking that which is given to him. This makes for a simple but effective form of communication. We will attempt to produce this in all of those who desire our contact. All that is necessary is that they desire [the] contact enough to spend time in daily meditation. It will not be necessary for them to experience the conditioning process that is common at these contacts in every session of meditation for this is not always desirable. However, there will be the muscular conditioning that goes along with the direct contact in new instruments.

We of the Confederation of Planets in the Service of the Infinite Creator have for many, many of your years attempted to contact many of the people of your planet. We have contacted many who have desired and yet have never been consciously aware of this contact. Those of you who are fortunate enough to hear the words of a channel and such as the other channels that are in relatively small abundance upon the surface of your planet are then in a tradition to become vocal channels of a direct nature rather than the indirect nature for those who have no awareness in a conscious sense of what is occurring.

We are unfortunately limited to this form of contact since conditions of thinking upon your planet at the present time require a very careful approach to your people. However, if we are successful in spreading our understanding of the truth of the creation to a great enough extent among your peoples it may be possible in the near future that we will be able to contact many of them in a more direct way. It is your part, if you desire to aid us in the service of our Creator, to help in disseminating this information to those who would desire it. It is necessary to remain in complete understanding of the prerequisites for an individual receiving that which we are giving. The prerequisite is desire…

Sounds like positive influence from entities like Hatonn, might have been going on for a while on the planet, like in people’s meditations, it’s just we’re not always fully aware of what’s happening?


Others correctly mentioned that Hatonn was being channeled way before the Ra Confederacy was.

As for the Orion entities, they would be known by Don because Don was researching UFOs and aliens/ET abductions.

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I wonder which empire Orion means? The Draco/lizzie empire?

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I know. I said that in my OP :wink: :wink: My question is, when did they (Hatonn) first make contact, and, more importantly, is there any sort of record or transcript of what they said then? The first reference I can find is in 1972, and at that point, it’s evident that they already know Don et al. I’m curious as to how they introduced themselves.

This might all be academic and trivial … However, when something piques my interest, I tend to follow it. Each of these entities – Ra, Hatonn, Q’uo – has a different “flavor,” shall we say. I’m curious as to when/how the nature and name of these entities came to be known. Ra gave an introduction prior to the published sessions (said intro being truncated for the books; however, I’ve read the allegedly complete version online since). I am curious if Hatonn, Q’uo, and Latwii did the same, and if so, what it is that they said.

Yes, I also figured this, but I am wondering which contact cases specifically led to the Orion Confederation being named as such. I feel like I know this, and it was some time around the era of 1970s, but I may be pulling that out of the wrong orifice. (Might just need to go back and look through some of my old books for that one.)

This is part of why I’m curious. I haven’t had contact with any disincarnate lizard creatures, but I’ve encountered others who claim to. It might be nice to be able to tie in the Orion stuff with the lizard stuff to give some better frame of reference as to WTF when encountered.

The impression that I get is that the whole of the STS “Empire” is one of conquest in whole and in part, with the latest, and therefore weakest, inductees being absorbed into the whole at the very bottom of the pecking order. (This is why I prefer to use the term “Borg” when referring to all of that, even though that is very specifically a Star Trek reference :stuck_out_tongue: It just seems more intuitive to me, somehow.) Thus, my hypothesis is that the Orion Group is sort of a catchall term, ultimately, based upon the stated origins of the first (??) of this empire. However, I could be totally wrong.

That is correct. It is a kind of catch all for the fallen seraphim factions. And the8r fallen angel allies

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Haven’t heard that one before, thank you :slight_smile: It would make sense …

Angels and Aliens …

So what’s your take on the Soul Group Lucifer thing? (Contract w/YHWH etc) … The stuff referred to in the Hidden-Hand doc (which I realize is high-content B.S., but I found that part interesting) …

Most of the hidden hand material is true. Thr stuff about logos and spoilers, is not based on my skill detection.

For a good reference here is adamu s take.

If u have questions about heyl el, just listen to them directly.

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HH might be literally true – in that the statements of fact are true – but why does the whole discussion seem so deceptive? Like all of HH’s talk about how he loves us and loves humanity

The whole thing seems like misdirection to me, like trying to appropriate the Law of One and redirect for some deceptive purpose

Carla gets into these details in her books. I don’t think they have an exact date for first contact, they were experimenting with this for many years in more informal ways, at least in the 1960s and maybe even before. Don was doing this work before he met Carla

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Hh is channeling his or her higher self. Heyl el itself perhaps.

The qabal person may be trying to deceive but heyl el does not need to. They are a fusion mind so h h is channeling consciously and translating.

2008 provided way too much true spiritual info though.

Yossaria, did you get this deceptive reaction from watching other people like fauci or elizabeth 2?

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Thank you for posting that, Ymarsakar. I’m not much of a vid watcher but I just read (somewhat skimmed, but fairly thoroughly) the Adamu letter. That rings way true and I haven’t read much of Adamu before but I like those guys. I will indeed have to pursue Mr. Zingdad further (hellova name :wink: ) May I ask, is he a friend of yours?

I’m curious as to which parts of the logos “stuff” you think is inaccurate, specifically. I ask this because I have observed inconsistencies and bumpy stuff, if you will, in the technicalities of logos differentiation particularly vis a vis logos, sub-logos and soul-groups. Thus, if you might point out to me what seems false there I would appreciate it. I have my own ideas, but they are still gestating.

As to the “spoilers” – it was my interpretation when I read that (two months ago, Oct. 2022) that he was intentionally giving us a clue. HH was my very first introduction to “this stuff” as written down on paper by other incarnated beings; thus, when it resonated so strongly with “stuff” that I have known from personal account, I took an immediate interest, which ultimately has brought me here. I immediately noticed the contradiction in that HH states explicitly in that document that any specifics (dates especially) are an instant indicator that the entity is lying or compromised. He then, later on, goes on to give specific dates. I read that as a clue, from him to me (the reader): “Use discernment, but dude – this is true.”

Okay, I’m reading more of Adamu/Zingdad now. They call them the “Dark Elite” = “Delete.” I may have to co-op that, as the term “Elite” to refer to those with a totalitarian bent has long annoyed me – the word has, or can have, other connotations that are not so negative, or could be not negative if it weren’t for the fact that the word is now almost universally used in a negative context. “Delite,” maybe? Hmm.

I became aware of zingdad a week ago. In 1 day i read most of the online material.

I never heard of thr name before. That is no coincidence. They know how i am. If i knew this in 2020, i would be blasting out spoilers non stop. And alert the enemy too likely.

The logos definition is true but explaining it as a god jealousy story, would be a spoiler if it was true and the system would stop it. For example, if i tried to say the corona is to produce a kill shot later, but i kept doing that spoiler in 2020, what would happrn? I would get csnceldd online to stop the spoilers.

Generally spoilers are accompanird by warnings or protections like a obfuscation magick. Invisibility. I explainrd more about this early on when i joined.maybr it is on search ymarsakar spoiler.

A logos is a tree or plant. The source of the fractal pattern. So it is the co creation pattern repeated. Image of the creator stuff. Dna replication.

Yggdrasil world tree.

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Reading HH back in 2008, I was annoyed, because I was hearing the Ra material (which I was already very familiar with) coming from a source that was arrogant and deceptive

In hindsight I understand that hundreds of thousands of people found the LoO from HH, so that’s nice I guess.

I never trusted Fauci for a second but that didn’t require any effort. Every single thing about Fauci is corrupt and suspect. His position in the government requires a venal character. His words were immediately lacking credibility because of their content alone. And on a personality level, the guy just seems like a sketchy pathological liar. Not at all similar to HH who seems to have some strong insight and intuition but has this taint of arrogance and malice

For QE2, she never pretended to be anything other than a hereditary aristocrat. She has no need to be deceptive because she asserts her superiority at every moment. Her disdain for others is baked into her position and nothing she says is authentic as a rule. Every expression and gesture is calculated for effect, and she expects you to know that

So anyway if you thought i’m some innocent trusting soul you were seeing my persona rather than the true depths of my paranoia

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Thing is you weren’t the only one saying this. Maybe you had gnosis of it, whereas others only had suspicions. But these ideas were circulating for a long time. Back in 2009 when Swine Flu was a thing you had the same depopulation story and panic, and mass vaccination

The swine flu vaccine, years later, was publicly acknowledged to have had some rare bad side effects and its need was acknowledged to have been minimal, since the swine flu epidemic never happened. But it also wasn’t a kill shot – maybe it killed your pineal gland or something like David Wilcock said, who knows

Medical tyranny is an old idea but until covid it seemed very mild

Failure is always a good excuse.

I am not attached to the law of one. It is like being attached id to colors and titles. The spiritual eternal truths are neither the property of the ra confeds or heyl el.

Thus it does not bother me if they begin sounding alike.

One of the more common thoughts people have when looking at my spoilers is that other people have predicted similar things and they were wrong. This gives them some inference or implication that the spoiler is wrong.

What they conveniently forgot was my track record did not include the false theories or copy cat teriminology.

Have therr been many people talking about god punishing america and the apovalypse? Why yes. Most of their dates were wrong.

Co creation is a rather advanced topic for a general audience that still needs meditation to clear their mind of intrusive thoughts.