Ra on rejecting government/society activities

Spritualchaos posted this quote today in another topic

I like what Q’uo is saying, it’s helpful.

However, I recently saw this confusing passage from Ra, which seems to possibly imply that not conforming to or obeying whatever the society/government wants is Service to Self:

41.14 … Those reverting to orange ray, and we may add these are many upon your plane at this time, are those who feel the vibrations of true color green and, therefore, respond by rejecting governmental and societal activities as such and seek once more the self.

There are some demands that government/society asks which I feel are a step too far for me, an example: being conscripted into a war and becoming a soldier. Is it really service to self (negative) to reject that?

Or perhaps it’s meaning that it’s not exclusive to someone who is going back to orange ray, but it’s just that someone who is reverting to orange range would also choose to reject government/society stuff?

Curious what you think!


Thanks for sharing this question. I think it’s helpful to see the whole quote in context.

The appropriate true color for third density is, as you have ascertained, yellow. However, the influences of the true color, green, acting upon yellow-ray entities have caused many entities to revert to the consideration of self rather than the stepping forward into consideration of other-self or green ray. This may not be seen to be of a negatively polarized nature, as the negatively polarized entity is working very intensively with the deepest manifestations of yellow-ray group energies, especially the manipulations of other-self for service to self. Those reverting to orange ray, and we may add these are many upon your plane at this time, are those who feel the vibrations of true color green and, therefore, respond by rejecting governmental and societal activities as such and seek once more the self.

Here, Ra clarifies that it is not negative polarization that is occurring but rather a regression from third density consciousness to more of a second density awareness where the focus is on the self rather than society.

Instead of seeking to cooperate with other selves, someone with these distortions will seek to become self-sufficient independent of other selves, societies, and governments. A common goal for someone seeking the self would be creating an isolated homestead where one can live without interacting with other selves.

The common cause of such distortions would be fear where one no longer feels safe in society and believes only self-reliance can provide security rather than mutual interdependence. One may say that someone with this bias seeks to run from and ignore government corruption rather than seek to correct it.


As I view it, these two quotes, although they may seem to be converging, are actually flying at very different altitudes. The first is about a conscientious seeker finding tainted social constructs lurking in their personal energy system taking responsibility to purify these. The second is about entities ducking down to avoid green ray energy and taking refuge in their own little world.

At the core of this, it is up to the individual to decide what actions, what thoughts, what principles and vibrations they would embody. If one is a seeker of truth, then options for doing such work and making good on it will come your way soon enough.


I don’t read “seek once more the self” as the same as “service to self”

I read it as others have in the thread, a focus on lower ray solo or self-related catalyst.


Interesting to put those two quotes together for comparison. I do think they are both speaking to a similar effect where the strong third-ray energies that exist at this time is putting much pressure on the individual to see and define themselves in a relative way, from one to another and from one to the group. So I will speak to how I interpret the Ra quote as I do believe it is clearer in its meaning.

The yellow-ray entity feels the pull of green-ray to do the service that their heart calls for, but cannot see how that service or love can be expressed through the third-ray societal structures that it finds itself in. Totally understandable for humans considering our legal, political and economic systems have grown extremely complex. Even something as simple as securing shelter for ourselves and family has become a convoluted process of filling out application forms, rental/mortgage contracts, employment history checks, site inspections, etc. etc.

Therefore the complexity and burden of strong third-ray energies baffles the average human who has been displaced from tribal living and thrown straight into the bustling metropolis to compete for survival and social status. This can overwhelm a person to the point that they get trapped in the repetitive loop of “maybe I could figure this all out if I could figure myself out”. Thus the great fixation with one’s personal identity relative to others (orange ray).

For instance, the student who trained in art due to a latent desire within them to artistically express green/blue ray energies, instead channels their artistic talent for commercial art because the allure of success (as defined by those around them) can too easily crowd out the more ethereal spiritual calling of the true self. The dissatisfaction the artist then subsequently feels for having chosen the path of material success is displaced into feelings of inadequacy, cementing them further into orange-ray thinking.

This is not to say that the current third-ray structures we have now is not conducive to green-ray and beyond polarization. I think once you can come to understand and balance both our civilization’s great benefits and great pitfalls, much service can be done in both STO and STS (I think this is what the first Q’uo quote is referring to).


I agree to @Cory that the whole content must be seen.
To obey is a prerequisite for STS.

Reading this thread another questions comes up:

Why is there present such a great demand to want to have an government, that will regulate everything for the people?

Is it not simply the inertia and avoidance to take own responsibility?


Most comments here so far are about the Ra quote, but what about the Q’uo quote which is about the seeker diligently clearing distortions taken on from a distorted society and then receiving catalyst to highlight embedded societal distortions which the seeker has not yet uncovered within self?

The earlier part of the quote discusses the responsibility of seeking at a level commensurate with the purity of light the seeker has discovered. Personally, I find this a much more interesting topic compared to Survivalists hiding out in the woods and merely protecting themselves. Actually, I think the point there is again that pulling away from the purity of light one discovers ain’t good for you.

"In most basic terms we may speak to this Law of Responsibility as the notion that as an entity becomes aware of its capacity to create and to accept within the creation around it, that this capacity—if not utilized to a certain purity commensurate with the purity of the light which this seeker has discovered—then catalyst is generated to a higher degree to catch the attention of this seeker and to call the seeker to address where this responsibility is not being accepted and utilized."


The more the seeker chooses to utilise catalyst for service, the better they become at it, for this is the path of true growth. When service is the true goal, not only consciously, but also emanating from the deep mind at the subconscious level, the self will open up in greater receptivity to learn how they may perform their service better - for that is their true desire.

A certain transparency of being then takes place where the seeker engaged in service stops taking offence to feedback, both literal feedback from others and experiential feedback through catalyst. No longer seeing it as a threat to their personal identity, there is little left for the seeker to defend, and they can work more efficiently with the information provided. This is what not rejecting catalyst and taking greater self-responsibility looks like, leading the seeker to become able to work with stronger and more articulated light.

The above I outline builds a certain momentum, as one steps further away from innocence into greater personal power. Certain yellow-ray dynamics that were once perfectly acceptable to perform service through, can become unacceptable to the seeker due to unethical aspects now being clearly seen. Realising then that continuing to utilise that yellow-ray dynamic in the same way puts them at odds with their intended service/tuning, which has become more sophisticated over time, the seeker must reassess, correct any wrongs, and find another way to continue on.

That last part is especially difficult to do, especially so as yellow ray energies are strong here and pull constantly on us, so there is some stuck-ness that can happen. The part where it “ain’t good for you”, as you say, is that the more stuck you get, the more “wrongs” you accumulate and the more accustomed you become at holding onto that cognitive dissonance of being at odds with yourself, and so another kind of momentum accrues in the opposite direction. What some call karma, and what I believe Ra also refers to as “harvestability”.

The higher self will program catalyst for where your karma is at its worse, for self-liberation during the incarnation is key. I think this is where the “finding yourself more at odds with society” comes from.

The example of military service is extreme, but apt. Instead of me spelling out the analogy, I’ll just use Ra’s example of General Patton.


I agree, as I do see this Law of Responsibility being ignored by those spiritual teachers of all sorts, whether or not they use the Law of One for their focus of study, or just use spiritual principles in general, being ignored. They ostentatiously want adoration and attention, while ignoring the duty of responsibility created by teaching people these methods without consideration for their level of spiritual advancement, the amount of shadow work they have done, or what their individual situations may look like.

What I have witnessed myself is people blindly accepting, word for word, the things that are being expressed by these individuals, because the words they use are loving, but I feel deep down the meaning behind their teachings is very apocryphal with core aspects of love and unity missing from supposed teachings that claim are from a place of love.

This is why we see so many teachers go astray, because they are not creating a loving environment with these teachings, and that these teachings have been heavily manipulated and distorted by the ego to begin with. Therefore they are larger targets for catalysts that go beyond normal day to day issues, because they are essentially manipulating people who are in vulnerable positions of processing shadows without any loving guidance, as most of these teachers are in it for the money.

That is when people commit suicide at spiritual retreats like with Bentinho Massaro. I’ve seen this with almost every spiritual “teacher” I’ve come across. They sound nice and loving when they talk, but when you break down the concepts of what they are sharing, you can feel that there is something massively wrong with it, and it’s not even remotely surprising that everything they “teach” is put behind some paywall and are told it’s for the greater good to “hurry up and get enlightened already.” I think it’s tragic for those who are sucked into these teachers without realizing that they are just imperfect humans playing a role based on the conditions of their society and are ruled heavily by their ego’s desires, and not their heart’s desires. I feel this can go in two different directions. Either those shirking the responsibility of the chaos created by trying to help those on their spiritual journey, are going to be smacked in the face with more and more catalysts until they are broken husks of what they once were, having to build themselves up again from scratch or they’ll continue on hurting others, refusing to get past their own egos in order to learn from the mirrors that are showing them exactly what they are putting out in to the world, because there is always someone who will listen to them, no matter what reputation they rightly accumulate.

I think choosing to be a teacher/leader of any spiritual principle holds you to the Law of Responsibility, especially if it’s clear you understand it, yet are still allowing the affects of society to dictate the stipulations around how you present it to other selves, or how you do or do not interact with them. I’ve lost count how many comments I’ve seen on these videos with people crying out for help that just get ignored. One person is not a good teacher when there is no one there to challenge their perspective of what they are putting out into the world. They need those mirrors of community to see themselves from a perspective outside of their egos that are looking through rose coloured glasses, going “Look how wonderful I am, look at all the praise, love and endless adoration I am receiving, I must be changing lives!” They see that a person is suffering and they say, that “they must have brought it upon themselves, it must be their karma, I’m going to keep looking at the love and adoration and ignore this person’s pain.”

I have seen these self proclaimed spiritual leaders denying any accountability for the things they teach, they do not want to be challenged (for it’s their teachings, they know it FAR better than you ever could, teaching it day in and day out), so they ignore comments challenging their views, they ignore comments of people who are really truly just seeking (because you have to PAY for their time, they do not answer questions for free), and straight up give love to every person who blindly loves what they have to teach, or thinks in alignment with them, while ignoring people’s comments of true pain and suffering. It becomes more and more obvious about how disconnected they really are to love and understanding, while trying to teach others that they know what is going on, so deeply, that you should pay thousands of dollars to have them tell you so. This is a dangerous principle that just causes more pain and frustration for every party involved.

Group learning is the way of fourth density, so I can understand how one person teaching someone is not an efficient way for growth right now. That one person has to be responsible for what they share. People instinctively want to accept and follow any natural leader, despite what they are saying, because they themselves are placing their spiritual growth and development in the hands of someone they feel knows more than they do, as a way of shirking their own responsibility for their own spiritual evolution. Maybe it’s just a matter of going from a position of leadership to being one with your students. You should sit in a real room with them, as equals, as there is a wealth of knowledge in experience, and assuming you know more about anything is a sure sign you have a lot left to learn, and continually perpetuating a system where we are placing one person’s importance higher than another, when we are supposed to be creating an environment of love and understanding. This is an old way of learning that badly needs to evolve. If you have not learned yet that every interaction, every experience, every thing you go through in this illusion, is an opportunity for learning, than you are truly missing out when you believe you have all the answers. This is not the density of understanding, whereas I believe creating a fourth density learning atmosphere is more prevalent to establish during this time of transformation


That sounds like channeled from the Q’uo. :kissing_heart:

Most of the people are living the life in a mostly fictional world. Nothing is genuine.

This remembered me at the story of Siddhartha: A Poem of India by Hermann Hesse (here the original german version). The story is explaining in a nice way why no spiritual teacher can really help you, when you expect that a teacher can bring you enlightenment.
It would be a good recommendation to give this story this people to read.

Well said. :+1:


Thanks to everyone’s comments in this thread. They are very helpful to consider. :+1:

To me, Q’uo’s quote is about the process of identifying which parts of the social structure are service-to-other and which are service-to-self and then choosing to take what resonates with one’s chosen path while rejecting what does not. Our society is founded on a mixture of service-to-self and service-to-other ideas and most people are raised to hold both as important values.

When we polarize in either direction, we will necessarily become an outlier from the social norm’s values. But because we are breaking established norms, it can be non-trivial to know if we are moving in the direction of choice or not so a growing amount of catalyst is provided to help guide us in the right direction.

Some examples that come to mind for breaking from social norms to further polarize service-to-other are:

  • Universal forgiveness
  • Non-violence
  • Veganism
  • Abstaining from addictive substances
  • Honesty
  • Generosity
  • Valuing spiritual progress over physical accumulation
  • Humility
  • Trust in a higher power

This quote from Ra comes to mind:

Questioner: Could I say, then, that implicit in the process of becoming adept is the possible partial polarization towards service to self because simply the adept becomes disassociated with many of his kind or like in the particular density which he inhabits?

Ra: I am Ra. This is likely to occur. The apparent happening is disassociation whether the truth is service to self and thus true disassociation from other-selves or service to others and thus true association with the heart of all other-selves and disassociation only from the illusory husks which prevent the adept from correctly perceiving the self and other-self as one.


Questions from @tadeus:

Why is there present such a great demand to want to have an government, that will regulate everything for the people? Is it not simply the inertia and avoidance to take own responsibility?

I believe the main motivation for government is to help establish order in the chaos of life. I agree there is a significant amount of fear driving this desire which makes it easy to fall into the trap of control and manipulation in the name of improving society. Many don’t see the connection between all of the laws we create and the corresponding slavery/imprisonment established by those laws.

Here is another quote from Ra about it:

It is a necessary balance to the intention of law, which is to protect, that the result would encompass an equal distortion towards imprisonment. Therefore, we may say that your supposition is correct. This is not to denigrate those who, in green- and blue-ray energies, sought to free a peaceable people from the bonds of chaos but only to point out the inevitable consequences of codification of response which does not recognize the uniqueness of each and every situation within your experience.


Perhaps re-ordering government to be a guidance tool offering education and protection from attack to those who want it while refraining from attack and imprisonment might be a way forward.


I’ve contemplated how to apply LO1 teachings to my own growing disinterest in 3D society, norms, expectations.

Lots of different layers emerged as I explored. But, the common denominator is living in a more loving way than I currently do: more loving toward the planet and all of the beings with whom we share the planet.

Put simply, to live (manifest) my values deeper and deeper.

For example, I’ve been a veg*n (vegetarian/vegan) for decades. Earlier this year, I began volunteering at a farm animal sanctuary. I found a deeper way to love life, and met other kindred spirits.

It feels less like a clear rejection of social norms, and more like a release of that which does not serve and a walking toward that which does serve.


That all sounds wonderful, IS.

1 Like

83.12 Questioner: Then you say that there are no cases where those who are service-to-others oriented are using in any way techniques of enslavement that have grown as a result of the evolution of our social structures? Is this what you mean?

Ra: I am Ra. It was our understanding that your query concerned conditions before the veiling. There was no unconscious slavery, as you call this condition, at that period. At the present space/time the condition of well-meant and unintentional slavery are so numerous that it beggars our ability to enumerate them.


I have always wondered why this occurs. In the context of Bentinho, he’s had whistleblowers from his close circle report on some pretty horrendous things, will this stop him? Or will this cause the concentration of his follower base to be even more extreme in their devotion?

I really wonder if these admirers that heap on the praise and adoration are doing quite a bit of harm. Acting like fourth-density negative thought-forms that Ra describes below, yikes! I almost think that the spiritual leader is the biggest victim here, the fall to reality from such high heights is sure to be precipitous. I imagine that the dependence on such adoration (to prevent such a fall) would be akin to a drug addiction. @xise “well-meant and unintentional slavery”, indeed.


Please have a close look who really creates this laws and who’s interests are mainly protected with it.

1 Like

@Cory, I agree. It could be that we create laws and norms with love and acceptance, or fear and protection, or a mixture of energies and intentions.

@tadeus, are you referring to STO vs STS? I’d guess that both types have a hand in developing the cultural framework (laws, norms, practices, etc.).

But … what are/were our intentions? Varied, I presume.

I sorta remember Ra talking about how seekers (wanderers?) do not often get involved in government (yellow ray). Am I remembering that correctly?

Years ago, I got two degrees: social work and public administration (govt). With these two degrees together, my focus was social services and policy. My (naive?) intention was to help people. Though, I could have unintentionally upheld a system that enslaved, as @xise’s post about 83.12 points out.

To varying degrees, aren’t we all participating in our own and others’ ‘enslavement’? And, I use that term very broadly. For example, the use of money, in some ways, keeps us “enslaved.” There are some of us who go completely “off grid” but many of us stay plugged in, whether it’s a little or a lot.


This is from A Wanderer’s Handbook:

Moving up into the solar plexus we find the yellow ray that is the primary ray of this density, that is, the ray within which the greatest work of learning and service can be offered. This is that ray within which wanderers must learn to work within various groups and institutions of your peoples. The yellow-ray difficulties mirror and extend those difficulties of orange ray. However, dealing with group dynamics is in one sense simpler, but in the normal sense far more complex than the dealing of one person with another. Within this energy nations are built and destroyed. Religions are started and abandoned. Peoples move across continents and cultures evolve, mature and fall away. And within each group there is the more balanced and loving and compassionate path. Within this large assortment of groups that each entity will encounter within a lifetime lie the matings, the marriages, the belongings, the revolutions that shape the present and the future. In this energy each comes into deeper contact with the group mind, the national mind, the racial mind and the archetypical mind. This is the seat of power within the entity. This is where the instincts of control and influence dwell. This is the place where the spider builds its web or decides to become another entity. This is the crucible of your lessons in love.

Q’uo - September 15,1996
Wanderers who come to this planet from other densities have served as beacons of light through song and art and government and through all of the little-known and seldom understood ways in which simple vibrations aid the planet. And each of you is as a beacon of light. That light will grow dim or grow bright as you allow the infinite love that comes from the Creator to all to move freely through the ever-opening heart and out into the world. You cannot love, for your human love will be very limited. There comes a time when the effort must cease and no matter how firm the intention, love cannot any longer be expressed in a human sense. It is only when one quits trying to be love and allows love to come through the self from infinity that one becomes able to withstand that great force and to be able to offer it on a continuing basis.


I would suggest that a good cultural framework does not need so much written law and such a big justice apparatus, because then a good moral and legal consciousness is present.

1 Like

Also: why is there a demand to explore alternatives to government? Perhaps governments are nearing the end of their useful life?

Some of us prefer the status quo social order. (And, the status quo may seek to preserve itself.) Others prefer to experiment with new approaches.

I can see both – um, many – forces at play. Push and pull, ebb and flow.

What if we injected society with a big dose of L&L? Would governments and economies crumble or adapt? Would new institutions and social practices emerge?

The pandemic lockdowns acted like a reset for me. They stopped all daily obligations and routines, which provided me the opportunity to reflect on what serves and doesn’t serve me. And, what I wished to continue and discontinue (release).