Guardians from the Next Octave

This question/answer from the Law of One speaks to me deeply on a spiritual level so I thought I’d start a discussion about it.

Law of One 52.12


Thank you. In mentioning, in the previous session, the harvest, you mentioned the light-bringers from the octave. Am I to understand that those who provide the light for the gradation of graduation are of an octave above the one we experience? Could you tell me more about these light-bringers, who they are, etc.?


I am Ra. This will be the last full query of this working.

This octave density of which we have spoken is both omega and alpha, the spiritual mass of the infinite universes becoming one Central Sun, or Creator, once again. Then is born a new universe, a new infinity, a new Logos which incorporates all that the Creator has experienced of Itself. In this new octave there are also those who wander. We know very little across the boundary of octave except that these beings come to aid our octave in its Logos completion.

So they have beings from the next octave that wander to this Logos in order to help. I believe this to be true based on my own experience.

Anyone have any thoughts on this topic?

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God help any next octave wanderers who ended up further wandering to Earth :laughing:

Why do you say this, out of curiosity? Or should it be obvious? Lol

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If you’ve wandered from above sixth/mid-seventh density, when asked some questions, the higher self will tell you it doesn’t know the answer since you’re from beyond the density of its abilities (I forget what Ra says the density spectrum the higher self falls atm so put sixth/mid-seventh). Full guidance for such a wanderer would require some sort of connection to higher densities and octaves that is probably hard to achieve and not discussed in most channelings.

Or you could just fly blind, I suppose that’s a fairly representative Earth experience. :grin:

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One possibility there is that homies of the 7D or late 6D wanderers may surround them and offer assistance and guidance as the individual entity becomes able to receive such offerings of love.


For some clarification, here is a seventh density quote:

Q’uo - December 2, 2017


Is there a time that the higher self is no longer needed to the sixth-density entity when they get close to the end, or do they always have that as a resource?


I am Q’uo, and am aware of your query, my sister. Forgive us for not addressing it in the original query. The entities who move through the sixth density and are harvested to the seventh density, that being the density of foreverness, are no longer in need of such assistance, although one must also realize the paradox of this situation, in that the mind/body/spirit complex totality has, in some fashion, been absorbed into the mind/body/spirit complex that has moved through the sixth density and into the seventh density. Eventually, all paradoxes are resolved as the spiritual mass of all those entities within the seventh density become absorbed into the One Infinite Creator once again.

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I remember Ra saying that they knew little about the previous octave, but then, having wanderers from the next octave “here”, it is likely that we also have entities from our octave returning to the previous one to do the light-bringer work? So why don’t we know more about the previous octave?

This topic raises many questions. Is the graduation light only “producible” by these wanderers?

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If they work the same here in this octave of experience as they do in their home octave, I imagine they help supervise the harvest, as that is what guardians of this octave of experience help out with. I imagine this process goes on exponentially with every octave.

Or maybe this logos was having so much trouble it called those from the next octave to come help. Planets being burnt to a crispy, blown into what is now the asteroid belt, and nuclear explosions being detonated, sinking land masses and causing the potential to eviscerate souls, would be enough to cause a great ripple of calling throughout the universe that would transverse octaves. But then that is just my humble opinion.

Law of One 51.1
I am Ra. In time of harvest there are always harvesters. The fruit is formed as it will be, but there is some supervision necessary to ensure that this bounty is placed as it should be, without the bruise or the blemish.

There are those of three levels watching over harvest.

The first level is planetary and that which may be called angelic. This type of guardian includes the mind/body/spirit complex totality or higher self of an entity and those inner plane entities which have been attracted to this entity through its inner seeking.

The second class of those who ward this process are those of the Confederation who have the honor/duty of standing in the small places at the edge of the steps of light/love so that those entities being harvested will not, no matter how confused or unable to make contact with their higher self, stumble and fall away for any reason other than the strength of the light. These Confederation entities catch those who stumble and set them aright so that they may continue into the light.

The third group watching over this process is that group you call the Guardians. This group is from the octave above our own and serves in this manner as light-bringers. These Guardians provide the precise emissions of light/love in exquisitely fastidious disseminations of discrimination so that the precise light/love vibration of each entity may be ascertained.

Thus the harvest is automatic in that those harvested will respond according to that which is unchangeable during harvest. That is the violet-ray emanation. However, these helpers are around to ensure a proper harvesting so that each entity may have the fullest opportunity to express its violet-ray selfhood.


I found this question mentioned the next octave beings briefly. I thought I’d add it to this thread as I find more information.

Q’uo - February 28, 2009

Actually, I thought about it in those terms but I didn’t say it like that. So hearing you comment on it helps me to get the better grasp. I will, however, continue with one more question, which is about universes. It does not concern the terminology that you have described. But, as you were speaking of the densities reaching completion and the energy moving back into the Creator, I wanted to ask if the universes that exist beyond this one in which we are experiencing our dance of the creation and the beings in those universes interact or are aware of each other in some way. I ask this question because I am aware that in the information that came through the Pleiadian contact with the one known as Billy Meier, the fourth-density entities that contacted him were describing another universe with which they were able to interact. My thought was, is it possible, from that philosophical standpoint, that one universe can interact with another while it is in progress, before it collapses back to the Creator?


We are those of Q’uo, and are aware of your query, my brother. We may say that there is a problem in terminology betwixt the information from the one known as Billy and the information which we offer, in that to our understanding there is one universe at a time and space, if we may use a pun.

The universe as a whole moves through the densities and lives and then is completed as one universe. There are certainly many of what you would call distant experiences to yours within this universe. The energies of one part of the universe do indeed interact with others and there has been discussion of the possibility of those from the next octave being able to move back into this octave from one reason or another. Of that we can say nothing for sure.

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Has anyone found any quotations about whether the Guardians are incarnative space-time on Earth to assist, or are they in time-space as the majority of Ra and assisting in non-3d physical form? Or perhaps like Ra, the majority are in time-space non-3d physical form, with a minority of Ra wandering into incarnative space-time 3d Earth?

When I first read the quotes posted, it I interpreted it as time-space assistance. Anything is possible though.

Fascinating subject.

I think the guardians assist with the harvest in time/space, as well as wander here from the next octave to help out in space/time. There is also guardians from this octave, as well as guardians of each planet, as well as the guardians who are members of the Council of 9.

I have read almost all of their quotes about the guardians and that is all I could find.

Law of One 16.1-16.2
I would like to ask, considering the Free Will Distortion of the Law of One, how can the Guardians quarantine the earth? Is this quarantine within the Free Will Distortion?

I am Ra. The Guardians guard the free-will distortion of the mind/body/spirit complexes of third density on this planetary sphere. The events which require activation of quarantine were interfering with the free-will distortion of mind/body/spirit complexes.

I may be wrong, but it seems to me that it would be the free will of, say, the Orion group to interfere. How is this balanced against the other concept you just gave?

I am Ra. The balancing is from dimension to dimension. The attempts of the so-called Crusaders to interfere with free will are acceptable upon the dimension of their understanding. However, the mind/body/spirit complexes of this dimension you call third form a dimension of free will which is not able to, shall we say, recognize in full the distortions towards manipulation.

Thus, in order to balance the dimensional variances in vibration, a quarantine was set up; this being a balancing situation whereby the free will of the Orion group is not stopped but given a challenge. Meanwhile, the third-density group is not hindered from free choice.

Latwii - February 26, 1982

On the subject of the Guardians, my brother, we are in all honesty at loss as to where to begin discussing them with one another within our density, for just as it is difficult for those of your density to attain understanding of our own, which is relatively close to your own, we find the Guardians to be quite difficult to understand for ourselves, which may be why we are within our density and they are within a much higher density. They do seem, we would estimate, to have a much higher level of development than our own. Beyond this, my brother, we can only say that we find great pleasure in studying them and their communications to us, in hopes that we may someday understand what they are trying to tell us.

There might not be a lot of information about them because they are hard for even Latwii/ Hatonn and even Ra to understand. And that is the guardians from this octave, I imagine the guardians from the next octave would be even more complicated to them because their view of the universe is slightly larger than theirs, and the guardians above that octave’s perspective is slightly larger, and so on to infinity.

Q’uo - April 1, 2006
The guardians of your planet are a group, some of whom are inner planes entities and some of whom are Confederation entities. There is a rotation of those who are responsible for planet Earth at any one time but a constant number of those who guard and keep stewardship of the planet, its people, and its resources, and by that we do not mean the kind of natural resources of which your peoples general think when they say the word “resources,” but rather we speak of the metaphysical resources of the planet as it moves through its own ascension process, shall we say.

The role of the guardians is to care for and be a steward to the people and the planet. During the ascension process, the guardians stand by the steps of light which are walked by those who are moving ascension or graduation. They look carefully to be sure that the gradations of light are precise, steady and stable. They look to be sure no one stumbles or is confused, for they wish each to walk comfortably into the light until they have chosen their most comfortable place. So they guard the sanctity of this process. It is by this process that each decides or chooses the nature of its next experience. If walking into the light and stopping one has stopped at a place that is yet in third density, then that entity shall next incarnate in another third density planet elsewhere. For the planet you call Earth has begun its fourth density positive incarnation and is even at this time accepting new entities as they graduate through the natural processes of death.

This is a good example of the planetary guardians role during harvest. They rotate in and out of this role but there is always a steady amount of guardians protecting each planet with third density life.

Q’uo - September 16, 1990
What were you referring to when you mentioned the approval of the occurrence which I took to be the joint project between those of Latwii and those of Ra—what approval was this?

I am Q’uo. The approval is that, not only of each social memory complex, but of that council which sits and serves as what you would call the Guardians of this particular planet, those entities which oversee Confederation attempts to be of service to entities upon this planetary sphere. This council, the session council, is known to you as the Nine, or the Council of Saturn.

I assumed that’s what you were talking about. Then the Law of One channelings also had to be brought before this Council for approval, and do these social memory complexes, when they are considering offering themselves for service, in service as contacts through vocal channels, do all those projects need to be approved [inaudible] before the council as [inaudible]?

I am Q’uo, and this is correct, my sister, for there is, as you know, that which is called a quarantine of this particular planet because of previous efforts to be of service to various groups of entities upon this planet by members of our Confederation who were, though very well intentioned in their desire to be of service, mistaken in various aspects of the means by which the service was carried out, thereby infringing upon the free will of some entities and groups of entities upon this planet. Therefore, it is now quite carefully guarded as to contact between Confederation entities and the peoples of this planet.

They work with the Confederaton to oversee what is happening on this planet, and probably others within our solar system that have/had third density life as well as oversee the quarantine and approve Confederation methods, like the channeling of the Law of One.

Law of One. 48.8
Who, shall we say, supervises the determination of further incarnation needs and sets up the seniority list, shall I say, for incarnation?

I am Ra. This is a query with two answers.

Firstly, there are those directly under the Guardians who are responsible for the incarnation patterns of those incarnating automatically—that is, without conscious self-awareness of the process of spiritual evolution. You may call these beings angelic if you prefer. They are, shall we say, local, or of your planetary sphere.

The seniority of vibration is to be likened unto placing various grades of liquids in the same glass. Some will rise to the top; others will sink to the bottom. Layers and layers of entities will ensue. As harvest draws near, those filled with the most light and love will naturally, and without supervision, be in line, shall we say, for the experience of incarnation.

When the entity becomes aware in its mind/body/spirit complex totality of the mechanism for spiritual evolution, it, itself, will arrange and place those lessons and entities necessary for maximum growth and expression of polarity in the incarnative experience before the forgetting process occurs. The only disadvantage of this total free will of those senior entities choosing the manner of incarnation experiences is that some entities attempt to learn so much during one incarnative experience that the intensity of catalyst disarranges the polarized entity and the experience thus is not maximally useful as intended.

So they also help set up incarnation patterns of experience for those who have not begun to chose they own life patterns.

So in summary, there are planetary guardians who help with all aspects of Earth (creating the quarantine, watching the planet for Orion influences), ones who help with harvest, ones that set up incarnations, ones who wander from the next octave to be of service… I think guardians is a general term for those who who have slightly larger perspective those the majority of those they work with, so they are respected in the sense that their expanded view is very useful to see things in ways that they cannot currently at their point in evolution. It’s like offering a more expanded perspective in a situation where the perspective can only expand so far.

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Isn’t it odd that even with millions of more years of evolution than 3D entities, Guardians have have been outsmarted by entities of less developed intelligence time and again? It reminds me of humans trying to create structures to protect their chickens, yet the wily 2D predators continue to find their way in to feed. This is to say, if you stand back, this whole business does not look more advanced than some kind of humanoid drama if you just scale down the technology. So, maybe being “more advanced” does not mean you can better compete on the playing fields of the lower levels? Perhaps studying this “disability” is one reason for them wandering? Perhaps through working in the factory they can learn to become better high level managers?

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To be fair, this planet is an experiment of sorts, as all the entities who failed third density experience elsewhere came here. There is a reason why there are so many negative entities gaining negative polarization here, as most of these entities are just not graduating, not on their home planets and not here, no matter how many opportunities for growth they are given. Is that a result of this particular logo’s experiment? Also guardians would not look at it this way, as they are beyond polarity and they have a unique perspective to understand the path of both polarities intimately. There are no mistakes after all, just some obvious and not so obvious surprises.

But I do agree, the negative entities on this planet are intense and relentless. This planet created a perfect breeding ground for negative entities, as there are so many lost in the sinkhole of indifference to dominate and control, to keep asleep.

Q’uo - May 23, 2009
As this instrument has experienced this change, it has been a matter of being completely unable to avoid looking at each and every part of the universal personality which this instrument has which has not yet been integrated into the heart, the mind, and the basic beingness of the surface personality.

It is not unusual that there would be aspects of the shadow side of a personality which have evaded notice. The reason is simple. For most of those focused upon the positive path of polarity there is no desire to investigate carefully or deeply the aspects of the personality that are the robber, the murderer, the adulterer, the envier, the one eaten with greed for what he does not have, the debaser, the one who wishes only to destroy. These are all aspects of the universal self. Each entity has them and the mark of a truly spiritually mature entity within incarnation is that he has faced his shadow side, has embraced it, has forgiven it and has asked it to work toward the good. We would suggest that each entity has found it less and less possible to avoid facing those issues in life with which he has hitherto not had to deal.

Basically, these guardians have faced their shadow sides in a metaphysical sense. Maybe it seems like they are being outsmarted, by our third density outlook on the manner, but maybe it’s impossible to understand from their perspective, as the larger view gives them access to parts of the puzzle others aren’t even aware are there. They may know exactly what catalysts are needed in order to heed what is necessary for the most change.

I do think that a being like that would not need to wanderer in order to gain this understanding, because if they are here as wanderers from the next octave, there is a good chance they have been wandering here in this octave for a very long time. And that is not to say, that they would not make use of every catalyst during their incarnations as a opportunity for teach/learning too. It would definitely be harder to help others come up with incarnational plans for this octave of experience on this planet without experiencing it themselves. Like they say over and over again in the channelings, what is so clear from the other side of the veil changes drastically upon entering the illusion.

I do think the general message here is no entity is beyond learning from their third density experiences, no matter if they are here hoping to graduate third density the first time, whether they are fourth, fifth or sixth density wanderers trying to lighten the planetary vibrations, late sixth density wanderers here only to be of service, or next octave wanderers coming in help an experiment gone surprisingly awry.

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Outsmarted or allowing things to happen.

Does God… the God… as in All… does it interfere or allow everything to happen. Ask yourself that question - why allow anything to just happen? If one were to murder, has that part of creation died or has it evolved. The dead will rise again and again and again, infinitely. How many incarnations do you think we have all had since we were fire, air or water. Death is an illusion. Evil is an illusion. Stop thinking like a 3rd density being and try to imagine it from another point of view that is beyond comprehension.

The Guardians are no more or less than what we are. Are they ahead in understanding or does it only appear this way because of the veil that hides things from the entities on Earth. I am sure that without the veil of forgetting we would look at the evil oppressors as nothing more than what we are. You and I are the actors of a story. Heroes and villains exist to teach. The Infinite Mind cannot cease to exist. All is a part of that mind.

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If it’s beyond comprehension, then how do you expect one to comprehend it? Also maybe try having some compassion for others’ point of view. I don’t disagree with most of what you said, I just think it seriously lacked compassion in how you chose to point it out.

This place is hard, for everyone. Wanderers, third density entities trying to make graduation, guardians… It doesn’t matter, this planet is incredibly difficult to comprehend and I don’t blame him for wondering how it got so bad. I ask myself all the time how did this solar system manage to make two third density planets completely inhabitable?

Looking at the bigger picture, this solar system and the inhabitants of it made a lot of poor choices that led to this place being difficult to wrap your mind around, let alone trying to understand it at a metaphysical level.

Planet Earth was an experiment gone awry and everyone should be wondering how it got this way so they can learn from this experience.


I’m unable to see any relationship between your response and my comment. Ra states that they cannot understand our distortions because they are so opaque, so I think it’s quite reasonable that the Guardians, who made poorly informed decisions regarding interventions here in the past, would likewise be confused by us. Incarnating into the maelstrom would be one way to get better data.


Since I came across some channelings that reference the next octave, I thought I’d add them to this thread.

Aaron/Q’uo Dialogues - Session 19, September 25, 1993
The human body takes this one step further down because it adds the physical catalysts as well, and that which creates more shadow. If you take a being such as yourselves and put it in front of that perfect light, which I would call God, you see a sharp sense of shadow. If you take a being like myself, a sixth-density being, and put it in front of that perfect light, there will still be a distinction between that energy that I am and that perfect light. I am not fully merged into that perfect light. If you take a being such as the Christ or the Buddha and put the energy of those beings in front of that perfect light, they will be almost invisible, almost only because they choose to retain some degree of consciousness and have not yet fully moved into seventh density. I am not specifying, now, where these beings are in their evolution. A being that has moved into seventh or eighth density is not better than a being which chooses to remain at the borderline of seventh density so as to allow itself to be available to those of the lower densities, to allow its personal energy to be available. That is really a gift and sacrifice on the part of that being, holding back its own full merging with the light out of service to all beings and desire to offer itself as servant.

This may be what Ra is talking about regarding next octave wanderers. They are full realized beings from the next octave who instead of going through to the next octave, they choose to remain at the borderline of the octave density and return to be of service.

Q’uo - July 1, 1990
In mid-seventh density, as spiritual gravity begins to move the ego into a lack of desire for form, for self, that creature turns back and in turn gives a gift to the mid-sixth density entity, so that in actuality each entity in third density has two levels of its own guidance to depend upon which are gifts from your future, as you would call it in your illusion. This mid-seventh density gift is, quite simply, the total data of all possible choices and all possible tracks at all decision points that have been registered along the way. It is a very subtle and complex gift, holding within its memory all those dreams that were not followed, all those paths that were not taken, and the results that would have happened had these paths been taken. It is your deepest intuition, and it is your gift to yourself.

As the seventh density entity loses all need to feel selfhood, the power of love which has infinite intelligence and no awareness of self at all calls it home, and it rejoins the Creator, which is intelligent infinity. At that point, so we understand from those few who have come to us from future creations, loss of self is in itself an illusion, for that which the Creator has created is never lost. There is no beginning over. The knowledge of this entire octave of creation is simply a gift to love itself, and love learns about love, and the heart of the universe beats once more, and a new creation, based upon the learnings of the previous, begins.


Tremendous find, a very rarely discussed point, which by coincidence I just referenced in the other thread before I read this one!

The point is that nothing is ever lost, nothing can be lost. Information can never be destroyed – and this includes the most personal details – the universe is both infinitely personal while also being infinitely universal. This must be so, it follows by logical necessity, inline with The Law of One.

This is a point on which Ra does not seem to be clear, but on a deep metaphysical level there is no way for infinity to lose anything. Even as limited 3D beings we can deduce this from the fact that the universe is ordered. If the universe demonstrates order, then everything in the universe must be part of this order or the order would collapse entirely. If everything is part of this order, then everything is of the same substance and every iota is essential to all the rest. Furthermore, nothing can ever be destroyed because that would also require suspension of the order, which is impossible

From the fact that we see order in the universe, it follows that everything must be one, everything must follow the same fundamental principles, and nothing can ever be lost. Infinity contains everything and can continue to expand infinitely while still containing everything with nothing ever being destroyed


loss of self is in itself an illusion, for that which the Creator has created is never lost. There is no beginning over. The knowledge of this entire octave of creation is simply a gift to love itself, and love learns about love, and the heart of the universe beats once more, and a new creation, based upon the learnings of the previous, begins.

That is so cool. It’s interesting that they can understand that, yet I guess we would still need to experience all this knowledge for ourselves in order to reach that density, not just seeing the logic of it.

This is interesting. It seems to imply that they would not be able to, or willing to, serve others at a higher density? I guess it’s easier for lower beings to resonate with a being that’s closer to themselves in density.

Yeah you’ve said all that well!

This is good to be reminded of. Sometimes I think people perceive the letting go of the grip we have on our personality and thinking, as being a regression. That giving up our sense of identity would be a great loss, that you would become less intelligent and less stable. But the creator is vastly, and infinitely, full of intelligence and love. It’s perfectly okay to relax and surrender into it, the more you trust that everything will be fine the smoother life will be.

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I think how it works, from everything I’ve read and experienced about this topic, is that you can only work with what you already know, not what is a mystery to you. A guardian from another octave could work with everyone in their octave and the one below that and so on, but the next octave would still remain a mystery. Just like Ra can work with those of 5th, 4th and 3rd density, but is unsure of what lies ahead in seventh density. There is some knowledge that cannot be learned until concepts needed to understand those later things are understood first. You need the tools, skills and knowledge required first to build the house. And even then, what you can do increases to unimaginable levels once you reach the end of seventh density, so it would make sense that learning works this way.