Empathy is The Pathway for Energy Transfer

Ra says that positive energy transfers begin in green ray.

Ra also says that the key to opening this pathway is through the mental/emotional/spiritual faculty of empathy.

Could empathy provide the portal/gateway into working with the higher rays, all the way to the point were we are open and perceptive enough to transfer thought-forms from the cosmic mind?


I think you are right in that the two quotes are referring to the same type of energy transfer.

To me the choice of the word salubrious implies a type of healing action within the thought form transfer.

I think that these quotes certainly imply the empathy is necessary for the thought form transfer but it may not be the case that having empathy is sufficient to be able to conduct the thought form transfer.

I am curious how you would extend the act of empathy with opening the higher than green rays?


Empathy is always projecting positive energy to another self.
Thinking is envolved - so this can be designated as a thought-form of it.
But primarily it is feeling with someone, or feelings dedicated for someone.

1 Like

This is definitely true, as it is how my gifts work. Being able to empathize with others, allows the green ray energy center to remain open, therefore being able to connect to the higher energy centers more easily.


Thanks for the question. The reason I am thinking of what initiates a transfer at the green-ray is because of Ra’s description of the green-ray below:

So I am trying to understand the springboard nature of the green-ray and how it relates to energy transfer as an application inwhich to study it from. Also, there are some theories that have been thrown around (even discussed in one conscious channeling session that I remember) saying that energy transfers happen from ray to ray in a sort of metaphysical stream of energy flowing one to the other. That is not what I have found to be the case in my experience, or believe to be consistent with the Ra material.

Empathy defined as “the ability to understand and share the feelings of another” is, what I am proposing as being the key to opening one’s self in receptivity for work in the higher centers. What is received, the empathetic feelings and impressions, provides the material/motivation to explore what is received in the higher energy centers. The blue ray would be the next ray to be worked upon, and I find the below bolded feature about blue ray relevant here:

So the blue ray is where energies that are pouring in from green/blue rays can be worked upon so that energy can also be sent or conveyed outwardly. The “free communication” or the “radiation of self regardless of any actions from another”, as it is referred to by Ra, is this “outgoing energy stream” quoted in the box above. Therefore the empathetic feelings/impressions, whether received from another person or obtained through personal insight, is what is conceptualized, articulated and expressed in blue-ray. But more than that, I believe that it is this working which crosses us over an important threshold.

To sum it up as simply as I can; green ray allows one to see, feel and understand what is happening for another, blue ray allows one to know how to effectively interpret and respond. This responsive interaction then empowers the empathic link as imbalances are being addressed and energies are being focused in an intentional manner. This is that co-Creative force, I believe.

So, blue-ray transfer is not about blue-ish etheric streams of prana passing through two people, lol, but that the person is able to act in a more efficient, inspired and individualised way in service one to another. As well as be able to radiate a stronger sense of being which is also a service, especially if the other person is also blue-activated and can clearly receive this radiation from other-self.

Well, that’s my working theory so far. I will leave it there before this turns more into a wall of text. I will likely revisit this to examine how the indigo-ray may fit into all this.


Hi there, Louise. You might consider that there is a vast difference between the occasional use of an upper chakra and the state of consciousness enjoyed at that particular level. For instance, a person enjoying yellow ray consciousness may have episodic experiences of green ray love, yet most of the time, not. And someone who is mainly experiencing their catalyst at a green ray level will have a very different experience of green ray activation.

So, if you arbitrarily take a 60 minute slice of your day and open it up, do you find there mostly thoughts of “I have to do this” and other self oriented action thoughts? Or is more than half your time spent in a state of heartfelt devotion to Divinity in one form or another (possibly a two-legged form)?

Being in that state continuously affords a far different experience of catalyst or what we might call consciousness. Likewise a blue ray state is a far different affair where catalyst is less relational and more perceived as self (as per Ra).

And so, yes, input to consciousness from higher rays is useful, but Ra’s statements about the developement of consciousness, I would aver, have more to do with the sustained states of consciousness on those levels. And my stating this might make things more clear, or the opposite.

1 Like

I think that when Ra is speaking of energy transfer that is between other selves and not between that ray. However, ones own energy or focus (hard to find the right word here) can move between one own rays as the seeker opens high rays. But this is altogether different from what is labelled as energy transfer in the Ra material.

I think the definition of empathy is important here. Not only for the clarity of discussion but also for our understanding of green ray energy. I think that the definition you have here puts too much emphasis on the understanding the feelings of another. I believe that when Ra is using the term empathy he is meaning something closer what Tadeus has described, particularly the part I have bolded.

In this way I would maybe consider shortening your definition to “the ability to share the feelings of another” I think this is more on target. However, I do disagree with the notion that empathy is always projecting positivity. I think the quote from Ra earlier is pretty clear that once you are empathising, you can chose to do this is is not always the case.

This dicussion reminds me of the term ‘cold empathy’ which I have heard in psychological discussion around certain negative personality traits such as sociopathy. This is described as a type of empathy where one is able to understand the feelings of another (perhaps even to a very advanced level of understanding) but has no ability to actually feel the emotions of the other. I am reminded of how a negative entity advances by using sheer will to bypass the green ray and activate the blue ray. I see this essence in certain sociopathic individuals.

Yes, this makes sense. If I understand you correctly it is not possible to activate the blue ray without the ability to make this energy transfer, thus one must unlock first this ability in the the green ray through empathy (obviously talking positive polarity here and excluding the negative bypassing of green ray that I mentioned earlier).

So you are saying the co-creative force is the ability to balance the inpouring energies of other selves? In that way one has a specific type impact on other selves and is therefore partaking in a co-creation or shaping of reality in a conscious manner.

1 Like

This is a good point. My initial thought is that one who has the episodic experience with a certain ray has not really unlocked/activated that ray yet. So in the context of Louises’ initial post I would say that someone who has such episodic experience in green ray would not be able to conduct the positive energy transfer yet.

But on the other hand I do not think that continuous experience in a ray is altogether common either. Even for someone who has access the the higher rays, I think it is natural for ones energy to flow between them given the circumstance. Perhaps it is more that ability to hold extended space within a ray, and to consciously experience the ray that provides the activation rather than a continuous experience.

In my experience the shift from experiencing consciousness on a second to third or third to fourth chakra level is not a smooth transition, but something rather abrupt. There is a very sharp difference in the way catalyst is processed. The sense or identity of self changes abruptly. In fact the parameters of self, the scope of self, also changes abruptly from one level to the next.

Access to higher ray energy is a bit misleading, actually. It can conduce to a false sense of belonging to higher vibrations when one’s roots and branches are not nearly ready to bear that load. Prudence is quite useful here.

I tend to stay with the public definition:

1 : the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner also : the capacity for this

2 : the imaginative projection of a subjective state into an object so that the object appears to be infused with it

The ability for empathy without any action is practically the same like the absence of the ability.

How empathy will work by sharing negative energies ?
I would say this is only violence and enslavement.

1 Like

Why hellooo Jonathan, so nice to see you. :slight_smile:

Me personally? I am much much more the latter. I’m very enlightened, don’t you know? hah! But in all seriousness, when you say “heartfelt devotion to Divinity” I sense a characterization of sweetness and grace (apologies if this is not the case). While those qualities are lovely in the extreme, I don’t think that green ray energies need to express like that in light of the many variances in personality. I would also say that acting with passion, purpose and a fire for one’s virtues and the common good also makes the grade. I think of those people with exceptional integrity - to the point where you could easily trust them with your life. I believe keeping one’s green-ray activated during the day makes it easier to stay aligned to one’s ideals, allowing for the concentration of one’s spiritual efforts while not being distracted or taken off course.

Yes, there is the activation and then there is the crystallization and everything in between. However, another noteworthy point is what Ra says below about green-ray. Another reference to the nature of green-ray as being a springboard/turning point/leap in consciousness.

Could you please elaborate on this? It has struck a curiosity in me for its deeper meaning if possible.

Yes, I agree that empathy is insufficient a word here to describe what I mean, and I think that I may be hitting upon the limits of my native language in what I wish to convey. Perhaps a good term for what we don’t mean is “selective empathy” which is mostly sympathy for those deemed as part of the self or tribe (and one can include the whole human tribe here). But, I am referring to a universal type of empathy that is not predicated on the other self fulling some condition (ergo the term unconditional love).

Empathy need not be limited to feelings of pity or sweetness, and I think our mind goes there because it is a common condition of lower ray thinking that empathy is only warranted if the other self is suffering or pure and innocent. (Perhaps this is what causes the huge driving force for the human psyche to hold so tightly to frames/narratives of perception which absolve the self from any wrong-doing or guilt, because if one’s self-concept was otherwise they would be deemed undeserving of empathy sympathy from self and other.)

But thinking of the nature of energy transfer, it would be very limiting if it was exclusive to just those basic types of emoting I refer to above. The kind of empathy that it takes to have an energy transfer on a complex exchange level (like in social discourse) would be a lot more granular and nuanced than simply feeling sorry for someone or sharing that warm glow of oxytocin that is felt during an embrace. It would be a deeper knowing and sharing between beings.

Yes and no. I used to think on similar lines, but have since changed my mind on this. I think calling it “cold empathy” is being too generous. What the negative entity profoundly comes to understand is not the true essence of the mind and soul of another self. The negative entity comes to know intimately how second and third-ray power dynamics affect other-selves. This knowledge when applied may seem very clever (and it is) and pass as cold empathy, but these negative entities know nothing of how to inspire the other, only how to hold down, subjugate and utilize the other effectively, sometimes in incredibly subtle ways.

That is what I am supposing, however I do not want to exclude empathy for the self obtained through self-love and insight.

Yes, it is a co-creation on a spirit level, perhaps done in time/space. You are changing someone on a fundamental level that may have lasting impacts outside of just their incarnation. For comparison, the act of “co-creating” in the lower triad of rays is about manipulating the political and social context in which the other-self operates in. Therefore any changes to the other-self through these means are incidental and random.

" 41.25 **…**Green ray is the movement through various experiences of energy exchanges having to do with compassion and all-forgiving love to the primary blue ray which is the first ray of radiation of self regardless of any actions from another. The green-ray entity is ineffectual in the face of blockage from other-selves. The blue-ray entity is a co-Creator.

54.31 …To answer your second question more fully we may say that it is correct that radiation without the necessity of response begins with blue ray…

In practical terms, say you have two parties engaged in a squabble which takes them down to operating on an orange ray level for the most part. They will likely not be willing to loosen the rigidity of a defensive position until the other party seems to do so as well. They depend on a relational model to understand their own Gestalt, as in, “It’s his fault because…blah blah.” At level blue, the Gestalt is perceived as self, therefore the relational aspect is not different than any other. Same goes for green ray level of consciousness (same as orange, I mean). This is part of that “wisdom” thing as well as part of the co-Creator thing: grasping all as self and self as all.

Returning to the focus of your thread here, green ray can be seen as a springboard, but it is also just another rung in the ladder leading up to indigo.

As per my “heartfelt devotion to Divinity” comment, sure, it will look different on you than on your mother-in-law, etc. Yes, there is a sliding scale between activation and crystallisation. As I said, experientially speaking, there is a serious, palpable transition when one goes from occasionally visiting higher energy centers compared to how it feels to when personal consciousness “permanently” takes up residence there. One’s life changes at these junctures.

I’ll add this on here, consider the difference between dating and marriage as a comparison to the difference between dropping in on higher chakras now and than versus abiding in them. Again, it changes your world to make such a commitment.


I first want to acknowledge the wonderful and insightful comments shared above and express my appreciation. They’ve been very helpful to me.

Personally, I see it as compassion as the main driving force towards working into higher rays for the service-to-other path. Empathy can empower compassion although it can also lead to overwhelm if one is not comfortable with the pattern of light seen. One can become trapped in negative emotions if one opens empathy without discrimination. For example, even the Higher Self is reluctant to empathize with those in negative time/space:

The Higher Self is reluctant to allow its mind/body/spirit complex to enter negative time/space for the same basic reason an entity of your societal complex would be reluctant to enter a prison. (7.7)

On the other hand, compassion is willing the good of others even if one does not experience what they are experiencing. This is a stronger springboard to evolution because compassion implies both the caring required to be motivated to seek to help as well as the consideration to understand others. With compassion, one can aid others without experiencing exactly what they are experiencing as long as one’s model of their experience is accurate enough.

Once one learns to have compassion for others nearly unconditionally (green ray), one can then open the self to others (blue ray) without fear of the consequences as no matter how others react to the truth of who one is, one has learned to love them. It is mainly fear of the reaction of others that prevents honest sharing of self and unconditional love removes this fear.

Unconditional compassion also empowers the ability to begin learning wisdom (blue ray) as well as begin balancing love and wisdom (indigo ray). This is because one is motivated to persevere through trials, challenges, and set backs because one has a large amount of the vital energy of caring. Those who don’t care enough will give up too easily.

But perhaps, once we have mastered the indigo ray, we are then empowered to empathize with all that is and indeed begin to become all that is regardless of the prisons of negative emotions.

The progress is normally from the understanding which you now seek to a dimension of understanding which is governed by the laws of love, and which seeks the laws of light. Those who are vibrating with the Law of Light seek the Law of One. Those who vibrate with the Law of One seek the Law of Foreverness.

We cannot say what is beyond this dissolution of the unified self with all that there is, for we still seek to become all that there is , and still are we Ra. Thus our paths go onward. (3.10)


From personal experience, I would have to say, yes. This is exactly what happened with me. Being a natural empath my whole life has opened up opportunies with working in the higher chakras more easily. I shared this the other day in another thread but this is exactly how my gift works:

The first step towards altering one’s state of consciousness is the honest and actual realization that you are not that which begins and ends in this incarnation or within this illusion. This begins to distance the self, that is, the consciousness, from that beloved animal of second density which sacrifices a great deal to carry you about. It is well to be a careful and generous steward to your own physical vehicle; however, it is your ally and your friend, rather than yourself. When you have clearly made that distinction, you may begin to see the absolute subjectivity of perception, which is your own.

The environment gives you a thousand messages, a hundred thousand, a million, so quickly, so very quickly, and the computer chooses that which it will notice, that which it will perceive. However, most are not aware that they have, at some point in the past, chosen to program the computer in such a way as to offer detuning, depolarizing and the heaviness of blocked lower energies. Instead of feeling helpless, instead of watching your behavior that you may behave correctly, take thought of your spirit and realize that all choices that have been instrumental in creating existing programs are your own.

Listen. Can you hear the sounds of the household? Were you aware of them before we asked? Feel the slight breeze that drifts languidly in warm air currents across your skin. How many millions of receptors there are. Think of all that you have seen as you came into this environment, this domicile, and met those in the circle of one, some for the first time. How much of that which you saw did you perceive? Perhaps two or three percent at the most, for the computer cannot carry the full sensory stimulation and create aught but chaos. Thus, choices are made which enhance, or seemed at one time to enhance, one’s ability to survive, to cope, and to behave. That which has been programmed can be reprogrammed.

Those millions or so messages that one’s environment gives, is exactly how I process all the sensory input coming my way. Most notice 2-3% of the messages happening at one. I notice as an example right now, the blues festival wrapping up in the background while Jann Arden plays live, the crickets chirping, some water dripping in the background, the buzz of there traffic on the TransCanada highway, the cooler breeze of the night air, as well as the slight moisture in the air, etc. I feel like I am always processing so much at once, that I know how to merge in a sense with anyone I wish to connect with. Once you can embody the feelings and sensations of another self, it is very easy to understand their mind set and where they are coming from. With that, you are able to show unconditional love towards them, and then it’s pretty easy to understand whatever mindset they come from. Once you are in that place of unconditional love, the higher chakras are activated naturally. But then again, this is just my experience.

Q’uo - September 28, 2019
I have a query, Q’uo. My question has to do with a natural rise in the quality and the depth of empathy and empathic understanding that many seekers, and those who are seeking to approach the next higher density, are maybe experiencing now, and could you talk to that?

I am Q’uo and am aware of your query, my sister. As you know, the purpose of this experience which each of you shares upon your Planet Earth is to begin to open your heart energy center in unconditional love for all those about you, for this is a choice which is available within your third-density illusion that can become transformative. For each seeker of truth that earnestly desires to begin this opening process, it is the desire and its strength that begins to prepare each seeking soul for this transformation, that which you call empathy, or the ability to feel what another person feels clearly and profoundly within your own being. This is the beginning of the opening of the green ray or heart energy center. The empathy that is becoming a stepping stone, shall we say, to the open heart is the product of the times in which you live, the frequency of vibrations of your very planetary sphere that is finding itself engulfed in more and more streamings from the cosmic sources beyond your planet that signal the transition period of your planet in its population into a higher vibration.

The portion of your population that is consciously aware of the process of seeking to open the heart to all of creation is that portion that is vulnerable to the incoming vibrations of love and understanding which begin to open the heart by allowing the seeker of truth to begin its own exchange, shall we say, of energies with those about it. In this exchange there is the apprehension of others’ vibrations, that which they are experiencing within their own chakras or energy centers as they go through their daily round of activities meeting entities who spark within them certain catalytic responses that may be what you would call positive or negative, difficult, harmonious, and so forth.

To feel empathically that which another is experiencing is to begin to open the heart to greater and greater vibratory levels of unconditional love, for the response that such an entity who feels empathy for another elicits or produces is that response that wishes to be of service to the one with whom the entity empathizes. There is much within each seeker’s life pattern that has been, shall we say, preincarnatively programmed to allow such vibrations to resonate within the beingness of the entity, so that what another person feels may be appreciated at the level of one’s being that is beyond the mind complex comprehension, moving into the heart energy center, and then having the emotions arise within the heart center that reflect what another being is experiencing. This is, as we have said, the beginning of the opening of the green-ray energy center which will eventually allow the person experiencing the empathic identification with another being to also feel the desire to be of service to the other being in whatever way may be possible or requested by the other being. Thus is the positive polarity enhanced in its own projection so that the service-to-others quality of the seeker of truth is purified by the experience of the empathic identity with another entity.


I think this is basically correct but I would emphasize that all thought-forms, or rather, all phenomena – literally all phenomena that exist – have feeling components, thought components, and manifestation components. So the same way you can feel the empathy you can also think it or observe it, or notice it by the consequences of the action, by manifest phenomena (which also includes higher density phenomena)

Wow, perfect!

What Q’uo is describing is just simple human empathy, genuine compassion and self-other-self understanding

4th density is “the density of understanding” – but meaning empathy, not wisdom

Look at what Q’uo is describing as green ray. You can’t tell me there aren’t billions of people on Earth who aren’t experiencing this, and many millions who have crystallized in their empathy. It is not that hard to find someone who is crystallized, consistent, and unshakeable in their empathetic approach to life

I would contrast this view – that green ray is abundant compassion – with the view that green ray is somehow something you “unlock” like a video game powerup, as if normal people need to try and fail and since most people never meditate or even think of spirituality they have failed and will not “unlock” the next “level” which will change the way they see the world

Green ray opening does not mean your entire sense of reality changes (that is indigo). Green ray just means genuine, abundant, compassionate empathy

Normal people do not consider green and blue to be spiritual. Green means compassion. Blue means communication. These are not “spiritual” to most people. Indigo, however, veers into what most people consider spiritual

My point being that there are many people on earth making good use of green-blue centers and they do not consider themselves spiritual at all, and society in general does not either. This is inline with the Ra material where very human figures like FDR and Ben Franklin made use of blue energy at a young age. This did not require some vast spiritual shift where they became the Dalai Lama. (again, that is INDIGO (or violet in the case of the Dalai Lama))

Every single person on this forum is coping with indigo activation or they would not be here – they would have no interest in participating. This includes the self-proclaimed negative adepts who would visit b4th – they were doing indigo work by being here at all

The sacramental nature of all things is violet ray, not green. People experiencing green ray activation and crystallization are overcome by a sense of compassion, not devotion


This may depend upon how deeply one enters in the heart. Confederation sources say that therein the Creatrix/Creator dwells. If a person can “tabernacle” there with the Creatrix, this might be considered a spiritual experience. Such an experience repeated again and again could possibly alter one’s sense of reality. Why? How? Because the poise with which one greets worlds, both inner and outer, shifts to something greatly more accepting and transformative, that is, one’s vibration moves closer to that Originating Feeling of Oneness.

But, as stated above, this would require deep penetration of the heart of being which is much more than a casual opening.

The Creator dwells within everything, all phenomena, all energy centers, literally everything, including the most negative polarity entities

So by the same logic you could say the same thing about literally anything

The point isn’t to find some exceptional case where anything could happen. If you always look for exceptions, then literally anything can be anything, there are no rules, no patterns, and nothing to talk about

When we talk about “sense of reality shifting” – well, any change to a person in any way changes their reality. When you do anything at all your sense of reality shifts in subtle ways

But, when it comes to reality shifts, there is one energy center that is much more obviously and conspicuously reality shifting, that normal people would consider a reality shift.

You can torture the term “reality shift” to include anything, or you can leave the definition alone and consider what normal people mean by it. When people change from mean to nice, normal people don’t consider that a shift in reality, they consider it a change in the person.

But when people have spiritual awakenings, everyone considers this a shift in reality. This is well understood for thousands of years to involve a shift in reality – a spiritual awakening is called “awakening” because it’s as if you woke up from a dream – that is how profound and substancial a reality shift it is

Indigo is the ray of large changes in consciousness of a spiritual nature

You are constantly describing indigo-relevant phenomena in terms of the other energy centers. Like what you are describing as green and blue activation have nothing in common with how Q’uo or Ra describe them, but what you describe does sound exactly like various indigo phenomena

Indigo is extremely changeable and confusing. Green ray is simple and well understood by humanity (in comparison) – most people recognize spontaneous, genuine compassion when they see it – and most of the most cherished and valued human stories are about that

Indigo activation and phenomena, on the other hand, is impossible for most people to begin to understand. It is just pure confusion

Anyway, you are describing indigo phenomena (and sometimes violet)

The one known as yossarian views the heart center as being about compassion and love, which it is, and those of Q’uo also see there a place of deeper consciousness where one may strip down self to its essentials and enjoy communion with Divinity. I cannot speak for all, but such an experience of one’s true and underlying nature is likely to have marked effect upon the life of one who experiences this.

Q’uo, April 14, 2006

We have talked before about the heart chakra. It is a much misunderstood energy center encompassing two distinct aspects.

It is impossible to make a direct assault upon the closed heart. The heart itself is protected within what this instrument would describe as an outer courtyard. The overarching dome of light that signals the presence of consciousness is gently enswathed in the basilica of the inner heart.

Outside of that sanctum sanctorum is that place where entities come, in all their dirt, to see if they are ready to enter their own heart. The difficulty that entities find when attempting to enter their heart is that they must needs integrate all of their personality shell into that entity which stands at the door and seeks entrance. All entities carry the full 360 degrees of personality. The entire spectrum of light and dark lives and thrives within each spirit sent forth by the one infinite Creator before the world was.

For those who carry that arrogance of wisdom, there is subtle work to be done in emptying the pockets of self. It is lonely and unforgiving work to break yourself open to the point where you can see and acknowledge all of the factors that go into what on the surface is a simple and seamless attitude of confidence and self-knowledge. Nevertheless, this is the task ahead of one who wishes to open his heart.

It is a difficult thing to grasp because there is no cleverness involved in opening the heart. There is only the acknowledgment of the falsehood of any claim that one may wish to make to true wisdom. For wisdom uninformed by love is not stable or balanced, in terms of that lesson which entities such as yourself incarnated in order to balance.

The wiser an entity is, the more narrow his ability to see beyond his own intelligence. The ability to use higher chakras further confuses the issue, because from the viewpoint of manifestation, there seems to be such a likelihood that such powerful knowledge will be useful to the self, to the Creator, and to the planet.


What is the “I” of a person and of a soul? When consciousness itself is the “I” of you, then shall your heart be free to open and blossom and radiate infinitely. And from that perspective alone shall you at last be able to march from the sanctum sanctorum, fed and strengthened, in full knowledge of who you are for the first time and ready at last to do serious work upon balancing the wisdom which you offered to yourself as a gift and as catalyst.

You seek to wend your way from the penumbra of articulated thought to the daylight of love. We wish you every good fortune in your seeking and we commend you for your awareness of the basic situation.

Well, when you put it like that, I agree that that would have a “marked effect upon the life”

But I also think an awakening to compassion and love does have a marked effect upon people’s lives, and human stories are full of these transformations. The Grinch who Stole Christmas had his heart opened, literally expanded in the story, and he was transformed from a Grinch to a generous and loving person

That is the kind of change that heart opening leads to – especially when it’s a dramatic change rather than a slow change

The more likely scenario is that people’s hearts open slowly over years and after 30,40 years they find themselves as a much more compassionate person. There are inspiring testimonies from ex-convicts who discover empathy and compassion for others and then 30, 40 years after their crimes are able to speak and teach about love for others

What I am pointing out is that this transformation does not involve a divergence with consensus reality. The Grinch did not pierce the veil or discover esoteric phenomena – he did not realize his true nature as a spirit or remember his past lives or experience the unity of all things. He just realized an open hearted love for others in the simplest sense

If someone has an experience of opening the heart that also involves a significant departure from consensus reality into a wider metaphysical view, including an understanding of explicitly metaphysical phenomena, then I would say their heart opening also involved indigo activity (even if brief)

The energy centers are a system, like an instrument, like a harp, with different strings. You usually play many strings at once creating harmony. You very rarely or never just play one string. The energy centers sound in concert, they react to each other, they act together

Anyway I don’t think Q’uo is contradicting my point on this. My point is that people who consider themselves non-spiritual do open their hearts and use that green ray energy without ever thinking they are doing something spiritual or religious. Compassion is possible in the illusion and also very common in the illusion.